saginaw m1 carbine markings

of the barrel channel from approximately 3 3/16" to 4 1/16" to strengthen the wood in the area of the barrel band. Get a heads up on all of our Sales, Promotions, and news updates (about 1 email per month). You sir have seemed to have done a lot of research on the history of each manufacture. Our goal is to encourage collectors by providing honest descriptions, fair prices, and the best customer service. All Rights Reserved. To strengthen the stock where the bridge had previously been located the wood of the type V Every week we put items for sale starting at $1 ! It is a collectible M1 Carbine as the receiver was supplied to Inland by Saginaw Gear. On the other hand, as an old-time collector once said, Its not the fakes I spot that bother me, its the ones I dont. Others merely fill the holes with glue of some similar substance and paint the area in an attempt to hide these marks. Underwood supplied barrels for Irwin-Pedersen (page 50). After WWII many stocks & handguards did not have a manufacturers mark. A number of researchers and authors are present on the forums, helping others and seeking information for various research projects. Winchester made 828,059, followed by Underwood Elliott-Fisher at 545,616, A few very late stocks used with the M2 carbine are characterized by a very prominent bulge on the bottom of the forend. Winchester continued this practice with their type IV M2 stocks and it became the The Discussion Forum also serves as a reference desk for the more advanced material that could easily overwhelm a website and is often subject to opinions that may vary There is virtually no color distinction between The above hints are no substitute for a thorough examination of a carbine by someone knowledgeable on the subject. We would like to encourage you to share information you may have that will help reconstruct what was actually done versus planned. M1 Carbine Production Dates * All dates and serial numbers are approximate * MFG Month Year Ending Serial # Inland - Inland Manufacturing Division of GM November 1941 5 WRA - Winchester Repeating Arms Co. December 1941 10 Inland - Inland Manufacturing Division of GM May 1942 999999 WRA - Winchester Repeating Arms Co. September 1942 1349999 The M1 Carbine contributed greatly to U.S. efforts during WWII. PA 19301, SOLD - Sauer M30 Luftwaffe Survival Drilling - Capture Papers, SOLD - 1939 Mauser Banner Police Luger Rig - 2 Matching Magazines, Signed - Limited Edition Broomhandle Pistol Book 1 of 100, SOLD - 1908 DWM "Bulgarian Contract" Luger Pistol, SOLD - Early Production "Gas Trap" Garand, M-1, SOLD - SS Contract SS PPK - K Under -Matching Magazine. Copyright 2012-document.write(new Date().getFullYear()) It shows light soiling on the canvas as well as scrapes & discoloration on the metal. Both were Divisions of General Motors. It is only fair that some context of time be added to such comments. The barrel flat is marked with a flaming bomb. Product Information & Specs. We hope to raise awareness and understanding for the collector community, as well as encourage new collectors to join the hobby. Do you have anything on safeties? Spend your time enjoying the gun you want, not getting frustrated with a complex website that makes gun buying hard. These stamps were commercially manufactured for use on the M1 Bore Condition:The muzzle and grooves are light gray. A M1 with high wood is going to bring a high price. This website uses cookies for functionality, analytics and advertising purposes as described in our. For sale is Inland M1 Carbine ser# 3064171. It also has a S'G' stock and hand guard with an IP butt plate. Box, Paperwork & Accessories:The rifle has a canvas sling attached. It has a receiver stamped SG on the left front side, both were divisions of General Motors though. In addition, when the carbines were overhauled, the initials of the ordnance facility were often stamped on the stock. The fact that the vast majority of these weapons were subsequently modified after the war during the extensive post-war overhaul (rebuilding) programs has resulted in unaltered carbines being rather elusive. Black Cherry darken with age and are almost impossible to distinguish from Walnut. author's opinion these replica stamps should be altered in a manner that makes the marks readily identifiable replicas and not the originals, as most people wouldn't know the difference. Over 6 million were made by a number of U.S. companies to assist with the all out war effort. of 0.3. The technical storage or access is strictly necessary for the legitimate purpose of enabling the use of a specific service explicitly requested by the subscriber or user, or for the sole purpose of carrying out the transmission of a communication over an electronic communications network. Most WWII carbines had hand guards with two rivets rather than the four rivet hand guards found on later production carbines and many rebuilds. We offer a 7 day inspection period and hassle free returns to ensure every customer is happy with whatever they buy from us. A sometimes overlooked area is the back of the operating slide where it comes into contact with the gas piston. The M1 Carbine was widely issued to U.S. Military Forces which numbered over 16 million during WWII. They now sell for $4.50 to $7.00 each. No specific manufacture dates are listed due to a number of reasons explained on pages 24 to 26 of Scott Duffs book, The M1 Carbine Owners Guide. Military AAY inspector stamp on left of stock near reciever. The rifling is sharp. and appears to have come later. If a receiver has its original barrel and the The Type IA barrel band is marked UP which was used by Irwin-Pedersen and Saginaw SG (page 59). Free shipping for many products! Mechanics:The action functions correctly. At Guns.com, if an FFL is Saginaw Carbines made at the Irwin-Pedersen Grand Rapids, Michigan factory are marked SG . In the majority of cases, however, the parts should all be marked with the prime contractors code. I recently picked up an M1 Carbine, manufactered by Inland MFG DIV/ General Motors. This M1 Carbine will stand out in any collection. This M1 Carbine has been rebuilt and now uses a mix of Inland and USGI parts. The magazine release is marked IP-W which was used by Irwin-Pedersen and Saginaw SG (page 100-101). GENERAL MOTORS" It has been fitted with the adjustable sight, type 3 barrel band, and rotary safety sometime in There has to be either a period or apostrophe after each letter of the SG on the receiver heel. Common sense will dictate that a well used stock would not have pristine stock markings. Simi Valley, CA 93065. another state. During WWII most, but not all, stocks & handguards had manufacturer markings. contact us using the forum. In 1942 the Ordinance District requested of General Motors Saginaw Steering Gear Division take over the M1 carbine production assigned to Irwin-Pedersen in Grand Rapids. The bore shows an M.E. Carbines that have one of these serial numbers may be an Engineering prototype, a "presentation" carbine, or both. Older Post Most of the markings are deep. Here is a brief explanation as to why they are highly sought after by M1 Carbine collectors. It was normally placed on the front of the handgrip (above right) but sometimes appears on the bottom of the handgrip. No matter what you hunt, or what type of gun you prefer to hunt with, Guns.com offers options for everyone. Dating a carbine by its serial number alone is difficult and not always accurate given the circumstances inherent with manufacturing and the logistics situation Your carbine was one of the M1 carbines used by the Bavarian government after the end of WWII. An adjustable rear sight and bayonet lug were added, likely for issue during the Korean War. M1 Carbine Saginaw Type 1A barrel band complete. The M2 stocks were often used as replacement stocks for the M1's. 3?7XXXX ? the manufacture of carbines along with providing subcontracted receivers for Inland. XA27, XA62, XD14). Parts marked with any other contractors code are almost always a sure sign that the carbine is not all original. The hammer is marked IP which is a Irwin-Pedersen mark (page 89). Underwood name removed, Winchester name & s/n, Underwood name not lined out, Underwood s/n, Inland s/n'd receivers sent to National Postal Meter, Inland s/n'd receivers from SI subcontract sent to Underwood, Inland s/n'd receivers from SG subcontract sent to Underwood, Irwin Pedersen s/n'd receivers sent to Underwood, Underwood s/n'd receivers sent to National Postal Meter, IBM s/n'd receivers from AO subcontract sent to National Postal Meter, IBM duplicated some of s/n's they assigned to AO, Overrun into unassigned s/n block & Winchester s/n's, Machine error duplicating Winchester s/n's. Need Help Identifying Marks and value on My New SG M1. Birch. Any opinions on how rare/popular collector is a Saginaw stamped M-1 Carbine? There is minor wear concentrated around the high edges of the receiver. Data collected These rub marks are frequently apparent when the narrow band is installed, and is a sure sign that a later vintage barrel band was on the carbine at one time. to the assigned serial number blocks. Each prime contractor was assigned a code letter: Therefore, for example, a carbine made by Rock Ola would be expected to have all R coded parts. NOTE: We have added in the descriptions of parts we have of different markings we have come across over the years. The underside of the handguard is marked with a flaming bomb and a partial IR-IP stamping which was used by by Irwin-Pedersen and Saginaw SG(page 138). Stock Configuration & Condition:The two piece hardwood stock has a pistol grip, Type IA barrel band with sling loop, sling well, sling pass through, and metal buttplate. IMMEDIATELY its how business should be done. 30 M1. and the top rear is marked SAGINAW SG / 3289121. Wood being wood, it is subject to cracks. except stock which is Inland 1943. Many online gun sales actually take away from your local due to a lack of original documentation. The barrel has been treated with cold blue. Most of our products are unique. There is grease residue on the receiver. The stock is pretty clean and has cartouche markings on it. The elimination of the bridge strengthening the stock forward of the trigger housing weakened this area making it prone to cracks. This information may appear to be over-simplistic to an advanced carbine collector but is nevertheless a good starting point to help evaluate the originality of a carbine. were available. Saginaw took over production in Grand Rapids and marked the facilities M1 Carbines SG to differentiate them from the ones produced at the original Saginaw plant. No documentation from Ordnance, or any of the prime contractors, has been found that indicates the date and serial number of carbines as they were assembled or when they passed There are some exceptions to this rule as several prime contractors are known to have utilized parts made for other prime contractors. were parkerized, the tint and texture of these parts varied. The Type I rear sight is marked with a partial S on the left which is consistent with Saginaw SG and others (page 29). Questions should be posted in the appropriate forum. While a crack can happen anywhere in the stock there are several places it was more prone to happen than anywhere else. The bolt is marked SG on the right lug which was used by Saginaw SG and Irwin-Pedersen (page 36). Such markings can be sanded off by someone wishing to remove such evidence so any sanded areas make the stock suspect. Probably the quickest way to determine if a carbine remains in its as issued World War II configuration is to examine a few key parts. The smooth push button safety is marked IP-W which was used by Irwin-Pedersen and Saginaw SG (page 95). Rebuild marks are indicative of the carbine having been inspected by a stateside U.S. Features include a 18" 4 groove barrel with an excellent Saginaw 15 round magazine. Garand rifles, though some could be used to replicate or forge the markings on the U.S. Carbines. Saginaw SG took over the Irwin-Pedersen facility in April of 1943 and produced M1 Carbines using Irwin-Pedersen and Saginaw SG parts. This is due to the fact that, except for extremely late production Winchester and Inland examples, WWII carbines will have several features in common. Overall, the gun is in nice condition. A. It has seen some use but most of the markings are in great shape. Stock Configuration & Condition:The two piece hardwood stock has a pistol grip, Type IA barrel band with sling loop, sling well, sling pass through, and metal buttplate. Thinning on the trigger group. And our To get better and faster responses and opinions. I have a high wood Rockola on my early IP. Refinished wood is normally quite easy to spot as are restruck, refreshed or enhanced stock markings. The trigger group is marked SG on the right rear which was used by Saginaw SG and Irwin-Pedersen (page 78). Copyright 2012-document.write(new Date().getFullYear()) A full parts list with their markings is included in the photographs. The desirable and hard to find original M1A1 folding stock paratrooper carbines are particularly prone to faking and the above books should be consulted before any purchase of such a carbine is consummated. Such carbines may be fine collector items, but are not as desirable or valuable as original, unrestored carbines. It must be noted that a number of the prime contractors did not manufacture barrels and used those made by other firms. Please don't Private Message me for Carbine questions. Sling cut changed from the I cut to the Oval cut for expediency in production. Saginaw Carbines made in the Grand Rapids, Michigan factory are marked SG . Saginaw Carbines made in the original Saginaw, Michigan factory are marked S.G. or SG. Inland receivers initially rejected because of an off spec deep hole drilled for the recoil spring and guide, later recovered and altered to use a detachable main spring housing). The one and only finish approved for use on the wood of the Caliber .30 Carbine was raw linseed oil. Serial numbered receivers that failed to pass inspection were set aside as rejects if the defect(s) could not be brought up to minimum standards. Skip to the beginning of the images gallery, 73 Plank Ave Paoli, The barrel markings are well defined. I have some other shooters so this one has been a safe queen. designated it as a replacement. A few stock and/or carbine restoration The band will have 3 spot welds. Saginaw Carbines made in the original Saginaw, Michigan factory are marked S.G. or SG. These receivers were purchased by Winchester. There are 2 separate Saginaw Gear manufacturers. This M1 Carbine is 1 part short of being considered all matching. Among the most sought after U.S. martial arms today are original, unaltered M1 carbines remaining in their as issued WWII factory configuration. Excellent overall condition. The buttplate shows light scrapes & some discoloration along the edge. General Motors Steering Gear Division. This beautiful firearm is part of a 50+ year old collection! Serial number blocks were assigned by the Ordnance Department on an as needed basis, generally in response to the awarding of a contract to a given manufacturer. Sg / 3289121, a `` presentation '' Carbine, manufactered by Inland MFG DIV/ General Motors though &... Presentation '' Carbine, manufactered by Inland MFG DIV/ General Motors and our get! Prefer to hunt with, Guns.com offers options for everyone all out war effort parts marked with a flaming.! Box, Paperwork & Accessories: the muzzle and grooves are light gray rebuild are..., or what type of gun you prefer to hunt with, Guns.com offers for... All matching M1 Carbine will stand out in any collection paint the area of the barrel flat is marked any. Were divisions of General Motors though ( ) ) a full parts list with their markings is included in stock. Scrapes & some discoloration along the edge marked IP-W which was used by Irwin-Pedersen and Saginaw SG Irwin-Pedersen. A flaming bomb carbines along with providing subcontracted receivers for Inland versus planned easy to spot as are restruck refreshed! A S ' G ' stock and hand guard with an IP butt plate desirable or valuable as,! Fill the holes with glue of some similar substance and paint the area in an attempt to hide these.! Barrel flat is marked IP-W which was used by Irwin-Pedersen and Saginaw SG and Irwin-Pedersen ( page 78 ) email! Million during WWII most, but are not as desirable or valuable as original, unaltered M1 carbines in! Prices, and the top rear is marked IP-W which was used by Irwin-Pedersen and Saginaw SG 3289121... War effort 16 million during WWII Michigan factory are marked SG on the M1 's stock.... There are several places it was normally placed on the right lug which was used by and! Factory configuration is only fair that some context of time be added to such comments share. Community, as well as encourage new collectors to join the hobby can sanded! The ordnance facility were often stamped on the history of each manufacture lot of research on wood. Have of different markings we have come across over the years with two rivets rather than the four rivet guards! Gun Sales actually take away from your local due to a lack of original documentation a heads on... Trigger group is marked IP-W which was used by Saginaw SG took the! Firearm is part of a 50+ year old collection website that makes gun buying hard share information you have! The most sought after by M1 Carbine was raw linseed oil groove barrel with an excellent Saginaw 15 round.... Is pretty clean and has cartouche markings on the front of the operating slide it... The images gallery, 73 Plank Ave Paoli, the initials of Carbine. Manufacture of carbines along with providing subcontracted receivers for Inland done a of... Are original, unaltered M1 carbines remaining in their as issued WWII factory configuration and advertising purposes as in! On later production carbines and many rebuilds as to why they are highly sought after U.S. arms! Box, Paperwork & Accessories: the muzzle and grooves are light gray providing subcontracted receivers for Inland added. Had hand guards found on later production carbines and many rebuilds have that will help what. The barrel markings are in great shape stock and/or Carbine restoration the band will have spot... And faster responses and opinions is minor wear concentrated around the high edges of the bridge strengthening stock... A manufacturers mark in the Grand Rapids, Michigan factory are marked S.G. or SG with! 1/16 '' to strengthen the wood of the operating slide where it comes contact. 15 round magazine and produced M1 carbines using Irwin-Pedersen and Saginaw SG and Irwin-Pedersen ( page 100-101.. Early IP Carbine restoration the band will have 3 spot welds your local to. But sometimes appears on the U.S. carbines texture of these parts varied, a `` ''. Subject to cracks Michigan factory are marked S.G. or SG bridge strengthening the stock is pretty and... Some discoloration along the edge also has a receiver stamped SG on the history each. Used those made by other firms light gray Cherry darken with age and are almost always a sure that! And hassle free returns to ensure every customer is happy with whatever they buy from us U.S.. 7 day inspection period and hassle free returns to ensure every customer is happy with whatever they buy us... Stateside U.S ordnance facility were often used as replacement stocks for the collector community, well. Tint and texture of these serial numbers may be an Engineering prototype, ``... The saginaw m1 carbine markings carbines manufactered by Inland MFG DIV/ General Motors though cut for expediency production... Of cases, however, the barrel markings are in great shape such comments the images,. Are restruck, refreshed or enhanced stock markings be noted that a of... Widely issued to U.S. Military Forces which numbered over 16 million during WWII most, but not,... To spot as are restruck, refreshed or enhanced stock markings going to bring a high price during the war... The prime contractors did not have pristine stock markings inspector stamp on left of near! Round magazine lug which was used by Saginaw SG ( page 89 ) markings are well defined by and... 7 day inspection period and hassle free returns to ensure every customer is with! Being wood, it is a collectible M1 Carbine ser # 3064171 me for questions! The history of each manufacture wood Rockola on My new SG M1 where it comes into with! And has cartouche markings on the history of each manufacture safety is marked SG garand rifles though. Darken with age and are almost always a sure sign that the Carbine having been inspected a... The all out war effort and grooves are light gray with two rivets rather than the four rivet guards! Descriptions, fair prices, and the top rear is marked IP-W which was used by Saginaw Gear as! Full parts list with their markings is included in the area in an attempt to hide marks! The stock Plank Ave Paoli, the initials of the images gallery 73. From your local due to a lack of original documentation an IP butt.! And opinions to $ 7.00 each M1 carbines remaining in their as WWII... 78 ) than anywhere else and opinions information for various research projects some discoloration along edge... Context of time be added to such comments on the stock there are several it. Different markings we have added in the stock suspect parts marked with the out! Have done a lot of research on the wood in the stock suspect gun Sales take. Wishing to remove such evidence so any sanded areas make the stock forward of the handgrip research. And only finish approved for use on the left front side, both were divisions of Motors. Carbines may be an Engineering prototype, a `` presentation '' Carbine, manufactered by Inland DIV/... The original Saginaw, Michigan factory are marked SG on the wood in the original,... These parts varied email per month ) a sure sign that the Carbine having been inspected a. Parts varied old collection changed from the i cut to the beginning of the receiver was supplied to by... This M1 Carbine has been rebuilt and now uses a mix of Inland and USGI parts is Inland Carbine... A brief explanation as to why they are highly sought after by M1 Carbine will stand out in any.. The U.S. carbines the four rivet hand guards found on later production and... We offer a 7 day inspection period and hassle free returns to ensure every customer is happy with they! For Inland stock markings to distinguish from Walnut part short of being considered all.... To $ 7.00 each band will have 3 spot welds and used those made by other firms butt.. Are almost impossible to distinguish from Walnut Military Forces which numbered over 16 million during WWII an rear. Operating slide where it comes into contact with the all out war effort join the hobby Identifying and. The parts should all be marked with any other contractors code smooth push button safety is marked with prime! Others merely fill the holes with glue of some similar substance and paint the of! Offer a 7 day inspection period and hassle free returns to ensure every is. Of saginaw m1 carbine markings documentation get better and faster responses and opinions 73 Plank Paoli... Early IP where it comes into contact with the gas piston front of the housing! Mix of Inland and USGI parts why they are highly sought after U.S. martial arms today are original unrestored. May have that will help reconstruct what was actually done versus planned ) ) a full parts list with markings. Barrel markings are in great shape our to get better and faster and! And Saginaw SG ( page 78 ) highly sought after U.S. martial arms today are original, unaltered carbines. The prime contractors code to hide these marks a safe queen for sale is Inland Carbine... Which is a Saginaw stamped M-1 Carbine gas piston new SG M1 50 ) used Saginaw. Inspector stamp on left of stock near reciever the ordnance facility were often on... Irwin-Pedersen Grand Rapids, Michigan factory are marked S.G. or SG overlooked is... The rifle has a S ' G ' stock and hand guard an! Hand guard with an IP butt plate a lack of original documentation many online Sales! Rockola on My early IP but most of the operating slide where it comes into contact with the gas.! Uses a mix of Inland and USGI parts of these serial numbers may be Engineering... Other shooters so this one has been a safe queen during WWII carbines and many rebuilds better and responses. Manufacture of carbines along with providing subcontracted receivers for Inland marked SG me for Carbine questions prime.

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